Has anyone ever used this before? I am about to install this over an OSB subfloor and want to get any and all pointers before I take this on. I have 5 in planks that are about 4 feet long. I am also going to float these floors. These are tongue and groove floors. Can I install without glueing the planks together? They seem to attach pretty snug without glue. I am willing to hear any and all suggestions/information. Please assist. Thanks, in advance!
Follow manufacturer's recommended installation instructions for best performance of flooring and to avoid voiding warranty. If you purchased a product that requires glue, then glue. If you purchased a product that is a click or snap product that does not require glue, then do not glue. Read and follow directions carefully for subfloor prep, any required underlayment, acclimation, installation, care and maintenance.
If you are not going to attach the flooring to the floor, then you will want to glue the planks together. Wood expands and contracts and you will end up with large gaps in your floor if you do not glue it.
Thanks, everyone.
I put down 300 sqft of the Thomasville Mahogany and it looks great! It was a good choice for an existing transition to a tile floor. I would definately use a good PVAC glue like Titebond II or similar.
Shooter!!! My savior!!!! Please give me all the details about your install. Any pointers? Did you install under the shoe moulding or just under the base board? How did you install yours? Glue, nail or staple? Did you float yours? Did you use Titebond II in between the tongue groove? What did you use as underlayment? I am about to start mine next week. I have the Jatoba. I am installing on an OSB sub floor. Please give any and all the info you can!
I used the off the shelf from HD, the blue rolls of padded underlayment. The 100sqft rolls are around $25 or so. They act as a pad and also as a vapor barrier. You lay the rolls with the plastic side down and overlap the plastic seams. I also use Duct tape to hold the seams together. I am on concrete slab and was mostly concerned about the transitional height to a slate tile floor. This is why I went with an engineered flooring that could be floated. I did not wish to have to put down a plywood underlayment to staple or nail into. I am also not a huge fan of gluing directly to a slab.
I removed all of the existing baseboard and floated the floor with 1/4 expansion gaps around the perimeter. I used tinted caulking at the grout line between the wood floor and the tile. I will replace the baseboard and shoe mouldings. It is generally easier to remove the baseboard but not always necessary. I used Franklins, Titebond II, PVAC wood glue and applied it to the groove side of the flooring, including the ends. In about 4 hours the floor was solid as a rock but you should let the glue set overnight.
I do quite a bit of flooring but none that float and are glued at the tongue and groove. I am quite impressed and would not hesitate to do more with this method. PVAC wood glue can set up and actually be stronger than the wood itself.
Thanks Shooter, you are a BIG help! I 'll be starting mine on Wednesday!
I am also looking at purchasing this product for over concrete installation. I am most concerned with how it is holding up under traffic. Shooter, do you have any pets, kids, etc that would be testing the finish.
We have a little Jack Russel - no kids.. I think it will be fine but want to get your opinion - as every product wears differently.
Also let me know how the install goes Kino... Thanks for any help..
Will do mdr2001, but let me tell you my install has just been pushed back about 2 weeks. My honey-do list grows with each passing day! I have to first take down some panelling, after that I have to mud and tape the walls, and after that I have to paint! THEN.... I can do my floors in that room!
is it Mahogany or Santos mahogany or another type?? anyone know??
Kino - I have 2 small children and 2 small house dogs. The floor hasn't been in too long but seems to be pretty durable. I am comparing it to other 3/4 solids and 5/8 solid bamboo floors I also have in my home.
mdr - The flooring is just listed as Mahogany by Thomasville. Even their flooring site does not specify any particular species of mahogany. Here is the url for the Thomasville floor site. Copy and paste into a browser http://www.thomasvilleflooring.com/Hardwood23/Mahogany-Bedroom.aspx
Thanks Shooter - all your help has been appreciated...Ill let you guys know how it goes.
Shooter,
In which direction do you lay the underlayment? Parallel to the floor joists and perpendicular to the floor that I am installing or what? Thanks!
Why is the float method specific to particular styles of flooring?
Why not glue tongue and groove solid hardwood together and float it over concrete? I only see mention of this method for engineered hardwood but I can't think of the reason.
I know solid wood flooring expands and contracts more than engineered, but the wood is free to expand just as it is with nail-down or any other method.
Kino - It really makes no difference for the underlayment. Personally I tend to run along the length of the floor boards.
granz - For one the manufacturer will void any warranty that they offer on the floor if you do not use one of their prescribed methods for installation. If factory warranty is not of concern then I guess you can install it any way you choose. It is your floor after all.
Having said that, you are on the right track. Engineered floors are far less susceptible to expansion and contraction so floating and glueing the tongue and groove may be considered acceptable by some manufacturers.
Solid hardwoods tend to expand and contract quite a bit more and most manufacturers suggest a nail or staple down method. I believe that if you add up the amount that a solid hardwood could expand or contract per board and times that by an entire floor, it is probably not deemed suitable by manufacturers.
In reality, the PVAC wood glues actually create a bond that is generally stronger than the wood itself. I am quite pleased so far with this method when I installed the Thomasville floor. My home is all 3/4 solid nail down over slab, except for this one room, but so far I have no reason not to like it. Time will tell more, but so far so good.
I still don't see why gluing the tonge/groove and floating solid hardwood is not recommended versus engineered wood. The additional expansion/contraction causes what problems?
How is nailing the wood down into plywood any more flexible than floating it? To me it seems like nailing down the wood should be even less flexible. The wood should expand and push up nails. At least the glue can expand/contract a little bit along with the wood.
I'm currently floating my Thomasville Jatoba over concrete.
According to many flooring experts (not the Home Depot sales agent/representative who suggested that I glue the wood to the concrete floor), the best way to install an engineered wood floor (like Thomasville's), over concrete, is to float it and NOT use the glue down method.
I had to remove a previously glued down section of engineered flooring and it was labor intensive. Then I had to remove the mastic. Over the years, the glued down engineered floor contracted and expanded causing gaps - the tongue and grooves had never been glued.
In time moisture will wick thru the concrete and there will be some shifting and/or hair line fractures within the slab foundation. In my case, I found the later to be true. For these reasons, the floating method is highly recommended.
Leveling the concrete floor: I mopped the entire surface with water and after an hour or two I was able to isolate the low spots by the puddles. I leveled the concrete floor with self-leveling cements. After trying, three brands C-cure (Floor and Decor), Henry's (Lowe's) and Level-Quik (Home Depot), I found C-Cure to work the best followed by Level-Quik. Henry's dried too quickly to work with.
It's most important to flatten your floor. If your floor is not FLAT, it will not last. You'll eventually hear pops and creaks and it'll be like walking on a spring board. It may take several days to flatten (level) but, it'll be worth it. Take your time and mix mortar to a consistancy of a light pancake batter for a smooth finish with feathered edges. The thinner the mortar - the longer it will take to dry.
Cutting the door jams: Using a sample piece of the flooring and underlayment as your guide, I cut the door jams with jam saw. It's much easer than a hand saw. I, also, used a Dremel rotor with a 546 Rip/Cross Cut for the ultra-tight spots.
The Underlayment: Professional installers recommended double layers of protection. They suggested that I first put down a 6 mil sheet over the concrete - over lapping 8-15 inches using duct tape. Then, place the better under-layment on top. I used Sound Solutions Vapor Bloc (Floor and Decor) - others may just as good. The plastic seams over-lapped and were duct taped. Use a high quality duct tape like Nashua by Tyco Adhesives. Never use dollar store brands - they never seem to last.
Glueing the tongue and grooves: Use a good PVAC glue like Titebond II. You'll have a tight bond (no pun) after 4 hours but allow the adhesives to work for at least 24 hours. Important note: wipe up the excess glue as you go along. It's VERY difficult to remove this glue after it has dried.
Spacing: Thomasville recommends a Ѕ inch (13 mm) gap from the walls but, this is about the size of most quarter rounds. I used 10 mm spacers, so use your best judgment. ј inch (6.3 mm) spacing is recommended for laminate floors and most spacers sold are ј inch.
I also recommend that you visit a couple flooring stores for ideas, recomendations and suggetions, also visit clinics sponsored by ACE Hardware, Lowes, etc, and, of course, go Thomasvilleflooring.com and print their Engineered Hardwood Flooring Installation, Care and Warranty Guide. Also read all manufacture instructions regarding ancillary product (underlayment, leveling cement, equipment safety and use, etc) information.
Most importantly, take your time and have fun...but don't take all year.
xxxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx
I have installed about 1100 sqft. of the jatoba in my home. I chose to nail down the floor mainly because i felt it would be a time saver over the glue down method and i have the equipment redily available and didnt have to rent it. I was very pleased with the overall experiance, there were very few pieces that had any imperfections. the prouct has been installed for about 5 months now and has held up well agains my 3 children and our dog. but i have had a hard time keeping it free of smudges.It cleans up very well but shortly after its moped and we are just going about our daily business it looks all smudged up i have tried several different cleaning products that claim to be residue free but they are not, but I was given a suggestion in another forum here to use bona kemi so thats my next step. I'll let you know how it goes.
I started to look at having Home Depot to install approx 600 sf of the Thomasville mahogany, and am now having second thoughts about using Home Depot to do the work. I have asked them to quote a floating floor, and they insist that they can only glue down that product. This will be an install on concrete, so I thought I had the option of doing either glue or floating. The product literature states, nail glue or float. I understand that if you float you must glue the planks together, and that is understandable. What is the right answer?
yes! you can float the floor, but i would not let home depot do it. you can find an independant person or company to do it for a cheaper price. all homedepot does is hire someone locally (who is an approved installer)which you could have gotten the same person to do it without the middle man.so i would suggest shopping around before you make a final decision.
I am also going to install the Mahogany Thomasville. I currently have wood (parquet) floor glued to concrete. I was planning to float the floor over the existing parquet. But I have read on several websites that I must remove the existing parquet before floating the new wood since the parquet was glued to the concrete.
I can't figure out why this is. The parquet has been installed for over 10 years, is level, and is stable. I would prefer to avoid the backbreaking work of removing the parquet. It seems to me that floating it should be fine. The Thomasville Installation Guide does not mention the need to remove it.
Can anyone think of a reason why some websites state that the parquet must be removed?
Thanks
You can float floors ontop of existing floors, but I do not know about floating them over existing hardwood.
The only thing I can think of is if the old floor fails for one reason or another, your new floor would be damaged.
I personally would remove the old floor just to be sure, but it's up to you. If the manufacturer says you can, then go ahead. They are the ones that give you the warranty. If they say you can't, and you end up doing it anyways, they can void your warranty.
I started my installation of Thomasville Hardwood in Walnut (Nogal) yesterday. So far it looks great, but I made a few minor beginner mistakes that lead to some small gaps between certain boards. Can anyone recommend a good tinted sealant that I should use on these spot areas? I'll need something to match the walnut color, which is basically the color of black coffee.
Thanks,
Azmat
I would be interested as well. We also installed the very dark brown Thomasville flooring in the kitchen. It's gorgeous and although it shows dirt (thanks to the dogs playing in the mud and then walking through the kitchen), we love it. HOWEVER the kitchen cabinet installer seemed to think he was MC Installer and scratched up the floor considerably. While the repairs are covered by the kitchen design company (yeah!) I'd like to know cover up boo boos if we muck it up ourselves. Note - do NOT use Sharpie (that was the installers fix). It will be obvious, especially in bright lighting.
Ironically one other bit of damage the installer did was to leave water standing on one of the seams - it buckled terribly. A week later it has leveled itself back down. Though I will have the flooring repair person take a look, I was impressed at how the flooring healed itself.
As for wear, the only damage so far has been caused by the cabinet installer. We accidentally dropped a 5 lb sledge on the floor during installation with nary a ding. Dog claws haven't phased it either.
You can contact Thomasville to see if they have touchup kits for their engineered wood flooring: For Thomasville Engineered Hardwood Flooring, call 1-800-278-8204.
You can also touchup with crayons or furniture touchup sticks.
Great information in this thread on the installation. Would love to hear from the folks on the options to keep the floors well maintained.
We just installed Thomasville Jatoba in our house (1200+ sq feet) and want to keep it looking good. The installation manual talks about keeping water away (even a damp mop is prohibited). But the folks at the toll free number listed in the manual/website suggest using Murphy's Soap with water as the cleaning/maintenance solution!
What has worked well for the folks here? What do you do to keep the floors clean and well maintained?
We just installed Thomasville Jatoba in our house (1200+ sq feet) and want to keep it looking good. The installation manual talks about keeping water away (even a damp mop is prohibited). But the folks at the toll free number listed in the manual/website suggest using Murphy's Soap with water as the cleaning/maintenance solution!
What has worked well for the folks here? What do you do to keep the floors clean and well maintained
I have close to 1100 feet and to clean:
I dry-mop our floors, bi-weekly, with a mild all pupose floor cleaner. Never use a dripping wet mop. Immediately afterwords, I use a dry towel to wipe up any excess moisture. BTW, Murphy's soap is a good choice.
I also have remnants, good welcome mats, etc at all entrances to minimize the accidental introduction of rocks, sand, and other items that can track into the house.
Lastly, I dust clean the floors, weekly, with a microfiber dust mop to keep the floors looking show room clean
I just got done installing Thomasville engineered Jatoba in my daughters bedroom, and there are quite a few spots where the edge of the wood cracked where it was nailed. I had a local handyman install the same floor in my other daughter's room a couple of months ago, with the same results. Both floors are nailed over 3/4 OSB. He used 1-1/4 PowerNail nails; I used 1-1/2 Bostich staples with a different nailer. I know it's not the tool, the fasteners, or the installer, so I'm guessing it the sub-floor or the flooring. I have one more bedroom and would like to avoid the same problem. Can anyone tell me why it happened and whether there's annything I can do to fix it?
DO NOT use 15 or 16 gauge staples, with that floor!
Stay at least 2 inches away from the ends, when fastening. The specs call for a fastener, every 4 inches, with a 18 gauge or smaller wire staple.
This flooring is real soft. A lot of denting claims are comming in. More then any other floor I look at for that concern.
By the way, that's a beautiful floor! I was looking at it when I was showing customers some flooring.
Originally Posted by Jazzeerun
I'm currently floating my Thomasville Jatoba over concrete.
According to many flooring experts (not the Home Depot sales agent/representative who suggested that I glue the wood to the concrete floor), the best way to install an engineered wood floor (like Thomasville's), over concrete, is to float it and NOT use the glue down method.
I had to remove a previously glued down section of engineered flooring and it was labor intensive. Then I had to remove the mastic. Over the years, the glued down engineered floor contracted and expanded causing gaps - the tongue and grooves had never been glued.
In time moisture will wick thru the concrete and there will be some shifting and/or hair line fractures within the slab foundation. In my case, I found the later to be true. For these reasons, the floating method is highly recommended.
Leveling the concrete floor: I mopped the entire surface with water and after an hour or two I was able to isolate the low spots by the puddles. I leveled the concrete floor with self-leveling cements. After trying, three brands C-cure (Floor and Decor), Henry's (Lowe's) and Level-Quik (Home Depot), I found C-Cure to work the best followed by Level-Quik. Henry's dried too quickly to work with.
It's most important to flatten your floor. If your floor is not FLAT, it will not last. You'll eventually hear pops and creaks and it'll be like walking on a spring board. It may take several days to flatten (level) but, it'll be worth it. Take your time and mix mortar to a consistancy of a light pancake batter for a smooth finish with feathered edges. The thinner the mortar - the longer it will take to dry.
Cutting the door jams: Using a sample piece of the flooring and underlayment as your guide, I cut the door jams with jam saw. It's much easer than a hand saw. I, also, used a Dremel rotor with a 546 Rip/Cross Cut for the ultra-tight spots.
The Underlayment: Professional installers recommended double layers of protection. They suggested that I first put down a 6 mil sheet over the concrete - over lapping 8-15 inches using duct tape. Then, place the better under-layment on top. I used Sound Solutions Vapor Bloc (Floor and Decor) - others may just as good. The plastic seams over-lapped and were duct taped. Use a high quality duct tape like Nashua by Tyco Adhesives. Never use dollar store brands - they never seem to last.
Glueing the tongue and grooves: Use a good PVAC glue like Titebond II. You'll have a tight bond (no pun) after 4 hours but allow the adhesives to work for at least 24 hours. Important note: wipe up the excess glue as you go along. It's VERY difficult to remove this glue after it has dried.
Spacing: Thomasville recommends a Ѕ inch (13 mm) gap from the walls but, this is about the size of most quarter rounds. I used 10 mm spacers, so use your best judgment. ј inch (6.3 mm) spacing is recommended for laminate floors and most spacers sold are ј inch.
I also recommend that you visit a couple flooring stores for ideas, recomendations and suggetions, also visit clinics sponsored by ACE Hardware, Lowes, etc, and, of course, go Thomasvilleflooring.com and print their Engineered Hardwood Flooring Installation, Care and Warranty Guide. Also read all manufacture instructions regarding ancillary product (underlayment, leveling cement, equipment safety and use, etc) information.
Most importantly, take your time and have fun...but don't take all year.
xxxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx
Jazzeerun,
How are the floors holding up? I am looking into install 1000sq ft of the Jatoba onto existing wood floor. Just wanted to know if the floors are holding up (dents/coloring). Thanks!
Hello Steve,
I like doing things myself because of the great self-satisfaction it brings, the inclusion of excercise and, of course, the cost savings. However and unfortunately, my only experience comes from lying the Thomasville over a concrete foundation. My opinion regarding floating your Thomasville over existing floors is, if the substrate is level and solid you should have few problems 'floating' your Thomasville boards.
Have you taken into consideration any height differentials with existing flooring (butting against tile, carpeting, hearths, etc.), doorway openings, etc? If there's going to be a substantial height difference, where you'll have to step up or step down, you may want to consider removing the existing parquet floor.
I've had my Thomasville Jatoba floor for nearly a year and when people see it their comments are usually the same Classy, Made for Biltmore, First Rate, Exceptionally Beautiful, Gorgeous, This is not cheap. Personally, I've never seen a wooden floor as beautiful as this...in any home.
This floor also looks spectacular because its butted nicely (flush) against carpeting - without T-molds. However, I did have use T-molds when butted against my flushed tile. I also purchased 'necked' quarter rounds and T-molds then stained them with Minwax's Sedonna Red. After two coats of stain, they were an incredibly perfect match with the Jatoba
Well wishes,
Paul El.
P. S. Wipe up any sweaty perspiration immediately or risk the possibility of perspiration stains on your beautiful floor. I have only one board like this.
In a message dated 1/8/2008 7:47:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, sdspin@gmail.com writes:
Hello,
I was reading your comment on the boards regarding the install of Thomasville flooring. I am also looking to install the Thomasville Jatoba Engineered Hardwood floors to 1000 sq ft of space. I was wondering how you like your floors. What have been the positives and negatives? I plan to float the floors over the existing parquet floors since it's already leveled. Do you have any comments about that? Any reason I should reconsider doing this or using the Thomasville floors?
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Steve
Does anyone have any recommedations for the best sound-deadening underlayment for use unter Thomasville flooring?
Thanks,
Griffin
We have just finished installing just under 1000sqft of walnut colored Thomasville Flooring. The floor looks beautiful and I couldn't have been more happy until I started to notice scratches on the floor. We have 2 kids ages 10 and 12 and two dogs. It seems the slightest running from the dogs scratches the floor and when one of the kids slipped on the floor the button on his jeans scratched the floor. I'm not talking buff out scratches I talking a scratch deep enough that you can feel it. I also took a scrap piece into the kitchen and dropped a butter knife to see how it would hold up. I dropped the knife from waist high and the floor dented. We are now not going to install it in the kitchen. I have also not been able to find anything that cleans the floor nicely. As soon as I'm done dust mopping it, I need to start all over again. I can live with cleaning the floor constantly but I can't live with paying that much for a floor that dents and scratches so easily. I plan on contacting Thomasville to see if there is anything that can be done, but I would recommend to anyone thinking about installing the floor that they take a sample from the store first and see how it handle. Oh I almost forgot we did have a couple pieces chip as we were installing the floor but I can live with that too. It would be great to know if anyone else has had these problems and if they were able to solve them. thanks
Originally Posted by Carpets Done Wright
This flooring is real soft. A lot of denting claims are comming in. More then any other floor I look at for that concern.
A past post....
FYI, on the Mahogany flooring boxes they now list the wood as Caoba which is also known as true mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla). That's the good news. The bad news is it isn't very hard (Janka 800).
Some of the planks have the most gorgeous whorls and patterns though. I need to save them for the more public areas.
BTW Santos Mahogany isn't a true mahogany but it's still pretty good wood for flooring.
EDIT: I called Thomasville Flooring just to confirm and the rep said the mahogany is actually Sapele! Now I am confused. The boxes clearly state Caoba. Grrr....
Did a google search for Thomasville Wood flooring and found this site. Read through all the post's and found it very helpful. But haven't seen too much the past few month's. I was in Home Depot and saw the Thomasville wood floor and thought it looked great - tough to choose a color! But I'd like to see how the floor is holding up. We have a houseful of animals (3 dogs and 3 cats), so I need a floor that's going to hold up. I was planning on using Bruce Lock n Fold, but I like the wider plank - looks classier.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I also would like to know if it can be installed over ceramic tile - we have ugly tile in kitchen and would like to put wood floor there.
We have a houseful of animals (3 dogs and 3 cats), so I need a floor that's going to hold up.
If you have pets or young children I'd suggest that you get laminate, tile (porcelain/ceramic) , granite, slate or marble flooring. Engineered wood floors, like Thomasvilles, are natural wood finishes and would easily show scratches and run paths. Then again, you may not mind having a beautiful floor with scratches and path lines.
Jazzeerun
Refinishing my solid oak hardwood floors 5 years ago was about the most satisfying home improvement project I've ever done. I'm looking to move now and found a house with what looks like traditional oak strip flooring throughout the kitchen/hall but a red/mahogany looking floor in the living room and office. Its wider than the oak strip and I suspect its probably engineered wood now that I think about it. The house is empty and the floors are not recently cleaned but the wear and scratches etc don't look like they will clean up.
Has anybody ever actually refinished this type of flooring? The tomasville website says the top layer is 2.2 mil suitable for refinishing 2-3 times but nowhere does it say actually accomplish this. I would think with that thin a wood layer you'd want to only use a circular sander to avoid the possibility of gouging the belt sander all the way through the top layer. But I also suspect that the UV hardened factory finish will not be easily removed.
Any thoughts or suggestions on this type of refinishing (or would I have to get a pro to do it) would be great. And for that matter any suggestions on what to look for to try to determine if it really is engineered wood (without prying up a piece!) would be helpful
Thanks
Kelly
Tags: thomasville, flooring, home, depot, over concrete, Home Depot, your floor, concrete floor, Thomasville Jatoba, wood floor, engineered wood, floor that, tongue groove
