vertical deadbolt better than regular deadbolt?
does a vertical deadbolt (segal) offer more protection than a typical single cylinder deadbolt? In general, yes, depending on several factors. The difference can be nil, to quite substantial---Assuming you have a wood door frame, the screws supplied with both types are often inadequate; the strike plate screws must be long enough to penetrate the wall stud, typically 3 to 4 inches. In the case of the Segal lock, since it surface-mounts to the door, be sure the screws are long enough to penetrate at least 3/4 the thickness of the door. The other factor I would consider for both types is the type of key cylinder--thanks to recent publicity the internet, even petty thieves know that the cheaper locks can be bumped open fairly easily, so you might consider a so-called high-security cylinder, though they can be expensive. At least with the Segal type, the rim cylinder is a seperate component which can be replaced with a higher quality bump-resistant cylinder. thank you, that's helpful. i'm going to start by investigating the door jamb. it's an old house so i'm not sure the wall stud is where it should be. i will post a pic of what i find. also, any recommendations for the key cylinder replacement? our outer door has crappy defiant locks and i believe it was bumped. however there is an inner door which had the segal lock on it and the thieves must have found it to be a little too much trouble. this was in the middle of the day on a fairly busy residential street/area of course. i also want to replace the locks on the innermost door to my apartment (three apartment brownstone). If $$$ is no object, ask your local locksmiths about a Medeco or Abloy brand rim cylinder for the segal type lock you plan to use...(there are others, but these are the most top-of-the-line, readily available ones)...$$$ because you're paying for patented, restricted key duplication, drill-resistance, etc. If more than you'd like to pay, ask the smithy about some of the better 6-pin commercial grade rim cylinders---much cheaper, and more challenging to the casual petty thief to pick, than the residential-grade low-end cylinders supplied with most big box stores. Also, a quick note about the term bumping: this is a form of lockpicking, and as such, generally does not damage the lock, or leave evidence to the homeowner that the lock has been picked. One notable exception would be if you encounter a turned keyhole, but this is most often due to a worn key, or inapropriate key pattern, on low-end locks. (be sure your key cannot be withdrawn in any but the one key-withdrawal position, to eliminate this possibility) In my opinion, Medeco is overpriced trash. The product has repeatedly proven to be bumped and picked easily. There are only two guaranteed bump proof locks. Abloy and Bilock. With all the evidence in the last year with video evidence and discussions with Medeco, they absolutely had to retract their advertizing campaigns that touted their products as the only bump and pick proof product. It is not surprising that another company in America has been found wanting. Besides the mounting evidence against them, the overwhelming quantity of agents duplicating keys, makes the key control of the product very loose. The quality of the product is very good mind you, but be warned! Thank you for the advice. I wound up recently purchasing a Schlage Grade 1 commercial deadbolt, the B660p: Certification: ANSI/BHMA Certified A156.5-2001, Grade 1 auxiliary lock. Deadbolt: 1 1/8x 2 1/4, Square corner faceplate, 1 housing diameter, 1 throw. Strike: 1 1/8 x 2 3/4, Square corner, box. B600-Series is Schlage's toughest heavy duty Grade 1 commercial deadbolt that are furnished standard with the door frame strike reinforced with 3 screws and 7/8solid brass or bronze trim rings. This unit significantly strengthens a wood jamb against kick-in attack and greatly increases the security effectiveness of this lock. Single cylinder deadbolt with 6-pin patented Everest C123 keyway standard and two nickel silver keys per lock. I'm sure the description is probably overstating the security somewhat but it's certainly better than the Defiant junk. As for the cylinder, can I replace the cylinder with an Abloy or a Bilock? Anyone know where to buy Abloy and Bilock and how much they cost (for cylinders and for entire deadbolts)? Also, any specific type and where to buy a more secure strike plate? Need to clarify some terms---a Rim Cylinder is a separate, lock component; not a complete lockset. They are available in many brands and grades. They are designed to fasten to and operate a wide variety of Rim Locks and other speciality locks that surface-mount to the door. A Segal lock is a type of Rim lock. You do not have a Rim lock, it is a Cylindrical Deadbolt which operates as a single unit; it does not lend itself to replaceable components of a different brand. The Everest C123 keyway, is a high quality cylinder certainly better than 95% of the deadbolts you typically find on residences, but it is not classified in that group called High Security in terms of pick-resistance. If you have a specific concern of someone attempting to pick the lock, you could trade the B660 for the B700/800 series that uses the Primus cylinder which DOES employ a high-security cylinder. Ask your locksmith for more info. AS for the strike plate, go ahead and install the supplied strike with the 3 screws; when drilling pilot holes you will discover how close the wall stud is to the door frame, so you will know whether or not to get longer screws. If you'd still like something more substantial, ask your locksmith for a High-security strike plate for a cylindrical deadbolt.....they're usually pretty long, wide, and with 4-6 screws. My understanding of this sites policies, is not to give specific names of companies of where to purchase from. If you search online, there are multiple companies that sell both Abloy and Bilock. Cylinders for the B660 in Bilock are model #9324. They are supplied without the tailpiece. The list price is $80.00 including 2 keys, but you can probably get them cheaper. You need to install the tailpiece from the existing cylinder and screw the retainer pin through the threaded bezel to hold the tailpiece correctly. The Bilock #4301 single cylinder deadbolt is a GR2 deadbolt and lists for $109.00 with keys. The Bilock #4302 double cylinder deadbolt lists for $175.00 with keys. I dont know the exact price for an Abloy Protec cylinder (or the model #), but I suggest they cost about $110 each + keys (extra). The deadbolts are around $220 I think. When considering strengthening the jamb, look into a product called Strikemaster II. Very good quality and guaranteed by the manufacturer to prevent kick ins. (if it fails they will pay the first $250 of the insurance excess) There are other products too....a few options to consider. Good Luck! As a point of note: The better quality the cylinder (excluding Abloy Bilock), the easier they are to bump open. Contrary to opinions online suggesting that the issue with bumping is reduced by not having access to keyblanks....it is a fallacy. If someone has access to any key of the same profile (keyway), that key can be easily altered and modified into a bump key. Originally Posted by rstripe ... it is a Cylindrical Deadbolt which operates as a single unit; it does not lend itself to replaceable components of a different brand. The Everest C123 keyway, is a high quality cylinder certainly better than 95% of the deadbolts you typically find on residences, but it is not classified in that group called High Security in terms of pick-resistance. If you have a specific concern of someone attempting to pick the lock, you could trade the B660 for the B700/800 series that uses the Primus cylinder which DOES employ a high-security cylinder. Ask your locksmith for more info. The cylinders in the B660 are interchangeable with other manufacturers (Abloy, Bilock, Primus etc). rstripe is incorrect in this point only. The Everest C123 cylinder is significantly easier to pick or bump than the Primus, but more likely only being able to be done by a pro. Thank you for all the help. I am looking into Bilock. I might replace the cylinder on the B660p with the one GlobalLocky suggested. Keys are darn expensive, $10 each and I would need about 10 I think. I found a few online dealers so far but I emailed BiLock asking them about dealers in my local area. The cylinder goes for about $80. I will have to take into consideration the fact that the BiLock probably doesn't come with a tailpiece although the two pictures I saw from the online shops showed it did have it?? Originally Posted by lessbluez Thank you for all the help. I am looking into Bilock. I might replace the cylinder on the B660p with the one GlobalLocky suggested. Keys are darn expensive, $10 each and I would need about 10 I think. I found a few online dealers so far but I emailed BiLock asking them about dealers in my local area. The cylinder goes for about $80. I will have to take into consideration the fact that the BiLock probably doesn't come with a tailpiece although the two pictures I saw from the online shops showed it did have it?? I am a Bilock dealer....so perhaps a little biased.....but the truth is the truth no matter how biassed or not. I will send you a PM with prices if you are interested...or better yet...PM me your email address and I will email you with details. I am able to supply tailpieces...but you will find that the original tailpieces will be better to use anyhow and the cost is slightly more to include tailpieces (you dont need them, so save your dough) Many of the online dealers simply do not have the experience or knowledge that others posess.....in fact most of them do not stock any product....but order direct from the manufacturer and drop ship to the client. Most of them do not have the unique machinery required to produce the keys or the pinning kits or software designed to build the cylinders. There are about 25 dealers across the USA. Of these 25 dealers....only about 15 actually own their own machinery, the rest order from the factory. I have been dealing the product for over 20 years and posess the necessary machinery. I may not be the cheapest....but my prices are competitive. Thank you, GlobalLocky, I stand corrected on the ability of the Schlage 600/700/800 being able to accept replacement cylinders....You know what they say about poor memory...You meet new friends every day...! I would like to get in touch with GlobalLocky about deadbolts and strike plates. Originally Posted by Bill131 I would like to get in touch with GlobalLocky about deadbolts and strike plates. Sent you a PM and email Bill131.
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